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Embroidery Piracy and EBay/PayPal Privacy | 127 comments (127 topical) | Post A Comment
I don't suppose...[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#13)
by Anonymous User on Tue Sep 12, 2006 at 03:21:32 PM PDT

...that it's occurred to you that there's a reason for the widespread disrespect for copyright law? It might have something to do with the fact that it has very little to do with "progress of science and useful arts" these days, and a whole lot more to do with greedy corporations' strategies for lining their own pockets with as little work (especially actual innovation!) as possible... At bare minimum, copyright terms need to be reined in to something sane, like 2 years or so. Anything longer encourages someone to create stuff until they get one "hit" and then coast, rather than keep on creating. I am dubious whether any length of copyright is needed at all now that it doesn't take a large capital investment to widely distribute the fruits, at least in the form of pure data or a blueprint. In fact, the very fact that lots of creative people get hugely rich (e.g. Stephen King) and keep on writing or whatever seems to prove that the copyright incentive is unnecessary for the most valuable creative types among us to be motivated. They have other reasons to do so, reasons that persist even when there's no further benefit in terms of raising their standard of living. If copyright was needed as per the theory, the current system would produce a lot of "work until you produce a hit and then promptly retire", which doesn't actually seem to happen! The other major reform short of outright abolsihment would be to make rights non-transferable. While an author could authorize others to distribute copies etc. (or open source would die), he or she could not give up that ability except by placing the work into the public domain (thereby becoming unable to DISallow its further reproduction, performance, and so forth). If rights were always held by the individual creator and never by virtually-immortal greedy corporations, things might be different...

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Making money with copyrighted work[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#18)
by Anonymous User on Tue Sep 12, 2006 at 11:35:46 PM PDT

There are so many misconceptions here, I don't know where to start. You obviously have never made any money off of copyrighted work.

You are right that there are few Stephen Kings. Sounds like your opinion is that the rest of us are worthless and shouldn't even try, or should just "feel good" about our creations and leave it at that. At least you're not alone: it seems a lot of people have your attitude of "I think its too expensive and you should just give it to me for free." It's very easy to sit there and call us all "greedheads" without bothering to think about anything other than you own desire and lack of funds.

The fact of the matter is the vast majority of creative folks never get rich, but they make a modest living by creating LOTS of works that each sell a little OVER A LONG SPAN OF TIME. If we do as you propose and limit it to 2 years, for most of us that's giving away 80% of the revenue.

Your points are all very pure and idealistic, but I'd recommend you try looking at the world from the point of view of us who--if we can't make our modest livings creating stuff--will be reduced to creating hamburgers at McDonalds because we won't be able to eat or put a roof over our heads otherwise.

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Greedheads[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#47)
by Anonymous User on Thu Sep 14, 2006 at 12:52:42 PM PDT

That's a good one. I think you are a greedhead. Obviously you're not very talented and you do belong at McDonald's since you're not able to be creative long enough to support yourself any other way. Now why don't you leave all the old grannies alone and get a real job. Kids are back to school now so maybe McDonald's will hire you.

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Greed is good.[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#74)
by Anonymous User on Fri Sep 15, 2006 at 05:49:34 PM PDT

Greed is good. Very good, indeed.

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Length of Copyright[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#97)
by Anonymous User on Mon Sep 18, 2006 at 12:58:30 PM PDT

IMHO, the current term of copyright is obscenely long -- why should your great-grandchildren get royalties on something you created (lifetime of the author + 70 years)? One of the sanest suggestions I have heard came from Orson Scott Card, someone who makes his living as a writer, who suggests the longer of 100 years or lifetime of the author plus 20 years. On the other hand, since greedy publishers are anxious to force independent writers to perjure themselves by declaring their creations "Works for hire," the copyright on works for hire would be 20 years, not renewable. My own opinion is the pre-1976 law (28 years, renewable for another 28) struck a balance between giving the author long enough to realize a good return on his/her investment of time and energy and accumulating a healthy public domain. But that's an issue for another day.

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I'd really rather return to 14 years nonrenwable[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#102)
by Anonymous User on Tue Sep 19, 2006 at 07:07:14 AM PDT

If it was only 14 years and people anticipated the derivative works they could create from copyright protected materials then DRM schemes that didn't take into account an unlock mechanism after 14 years would be easily declared illegal.

Furthermore, think of the progress we'd see if a whole bunch of people even now were working on derivative works for Star Wars, Star Trek, Harry Potter, Stargate, etc. Paramount just announced the digital makeover of The Original Series of Star Trek. They will be replacing the original models with CGI, sprucing up the audio, improving the matte backgrounds, etc. That series is 40 years old and could have been redone years ago.

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Watch It![ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#141)
by Anonymous User on Wed Nov 15, 2006 at 01:05:39 PM PDT

I was there when Star Trek came out. Don't remind everyone that is was 40 years ago.

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Have you read the Constitution?[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#104)
by Anonymous User on Tue Sep 19, 2006 at 01:08:18 PM PDT

You stated the following: "If we do as you propose and limit it to 2 years, for most of us that's giving away 80% of the revenue."

The only reason the founding fathers agreed to allow copyright to exist was because they thought it would enrich the public domain. If a copyright holder is allowed to capture 100% of the revenue from his creation that leaves 0% for the public domain and defeats the purpose of granting the monopoly.

Is two years a good length of time? For software code it might be too long. For movies it seems far too short. The original legislation that enacted the copyright and patent clauses in the Constitution set a duration of 14 years.

Given the uninhibited power grabs on the part of well heeled copyright holders I think it would be good to return to this duration for copyrights at least. Software patents should all be voided since their logical foundations are dubious at best. Patents work fairly well for the pharmaceutical industry.

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Hrm[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#109)
by Anonymous User on Wed Sep 20, 2006 at 03:51:21 AM PDT

"The only reason the founding fathers agreed to allow copyright to exist was because they thought it would enrich the public domain. If a copyright holder is allowed to capture 100% of the revenue from his creation that leaves 0% for the public domain and defeats the purpose of granting the monopoly."

Well said. It wasn't even about the artists, per se, but about the art itself. I'm not sure even two years are needed; try zero, perhaps. Modern Internet-based distribution methods mean that you can open source something and it will become widely distributed or not on a meritocratic basis, with the costs of reproduction and distribution also being distributed. So one use for copyright, to get investment in the publishing and distribution infrastructure, is kaput. The other also seems to be, given that "copylefted" works are proliferating in many domains. It seems there's no shortage of creative output even from those who cannot expect to be remunerated by licensing exclusive rights; they either get their money in other ways that copyright isn't needed for, or they don't care about the money, on an individual basis.

"Is two years a good length of time? For software code it might be too long. For movies it seems far too short. The original legislation that enacted the copyright and patent clauses in the Constitution set a duration of 14 years."

For movies it sounds about right to capture most of the revenue through traditional means but get it into the public domain quickly. About half the money a movie will ever make tends to be made in the first few weeks, in theatres. Most of the rest is made in the first year after the DVD release, generally half a year to one year after the theatrical release. As long as the clock starts ticking when the work is first published, and not when production merely starts, two years seems adequate. The few movies that are perennial moneymakers are just lining the pockets of fat cats, having long since paid the rank-and-file grunts that did most of the work on them their final dimes. Trimming some of the fat there would be a good thing. cough*Disney*cough

"Patents work fairly well for the pharmaceutical industry."

But not for someone with, say, HIV disease, unless they're in Canada or western Europe. Otherwise, either controlling the disease will bankrupt them and wipe out their savings and pensions (United States, many other developed and developing countries) or the disease will simply kill them (most developing countries).

Laws are supposed to be enacted for the public good, not the good of a few latter-day robber-barons. The public good is not served by laws that result in lifesaving medicines being priced out of reach of most of the public that need them, while the rest pay through the nose to line the pockets of, mostly, executives -- half of them working on Madison Avenue* -- rather than actual lab workers and doctors and other medical experts and cure-finders.

*Have you noticed how much the pharmaceutical industry advertises? On TV -- including überexpensive Superbowl ads -- and in print, not to mention wining, dining, flying, and cruise-shipping doctors (check out a thriller by Robin Cook named Mindbend; most of the events are fictional, but the way doctors are wooed by big pharma is depicted realistically, short of being brainwashed while on those cruises that is). The amount of money they spend on advertising is obscene. I would argue that drugs be divided into two categories -- elective and necessary, with any lifesaving drug and any needed to enable someone to function (more) normally after an illness or injury being counted among the latter -- and that laws be passed requiring pharmaceutical companies to do only one type or the other, and be wholly divested of any financial interests that cross that divide. Then the ones that make necessary drugs can be banned from any kind of advertising except for publishing results in accredited medical journals. Doctors continuing-educate themselves from said journals, and so will know the facts -- and just the peer-review-filtered facts -- about what's available in the way of options to treat what. Useless or outright dangerous medications will simply never get used; the necessary role of advertising in letting people know of the existence of a product that does X gets fulfilled; and the obscene spending and reckless encouragement of the public to self-prescribe potentially dangerous medications goes away. Recreational substances of course continue to be advertised and sold as usual. The divide also makes it clear what should be insurance-claimable and what not.

Hold on, I think there's a couple of men in black suits knocking on my door. Probably pharm company lawyers, CIA, or both...

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Good discussion[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#111)
by Anonymous User on Wed Sep 20, 2006 at 06:15:14 AM PDT

I believe that patents are working spectacularly in the drug industry. It costs a fortune to develop useful drugs. Venture capitalists simply won't invest the kind of money needed to develop the drugs unless there exists enough of an incentive to do so. Without the drugs people die. Once they are developed under a patent, rich people live and poor people still die - for 20 years - after that time EVERYBODY lives. Without patent protection, investors don't invest money, without money drug companies can't develop drugs, and without the drugs EVERYBODY dies.

Drug Patents => Everybody wins after 20 years
No Drug Patents => Nobody wins ever

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Kinda sucks[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#113)
by Anonymous User on Wed Sep 20, 2006 at 08:06:18 AM PDT

for the poor folks those first 20 years then, eh?

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they die[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#114)
by Anonymous User on Wed Sep 20, 2006 at 02:18:48 PM PDT

... cleans out the gene pool.

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Thanks[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#115)
by Anonymous User on Thu Sep 21, 2006 at 05:00:10 AM PDT

for the clever comment Adolf, I'm sure you'll have you master race in no time

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Clever[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#117)
by Anonymous User on Thu Sep 21, 2006 at 07:13:41 AM PDT

The gene pool comment was pretty clever. It's called natural selection and all species go through it.

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Too bad [ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#118)
by Anonymous User on Thu Sep 21, 2006 at 09:11:40 AM PDT

Drugs, medical procedures, and surgery have elimintated a large portion of natural selection... If you have enough money to afford them.

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The actual fix[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#116)
by Anonymous User on Thu Sep 21, 2006 at 06:58:38 AM PDT

The actual fix is called insurance and spreading of risk. In this fashion we can still devote the resources necessary to develop the drugs while providing the benefits to those who would be otherwise unable to afford them in the interim. Sure it would be great if we had an infinite amount of resources or if people would do hard work just for the good of others but the first item doesn't exist and the second item has been tried repeatedly and failed.

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Issue[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#110)
by Anonymous User on Wed Sep 20, 2006 at 03:53:46 AM PDT

"For most of us that's giving away 80% of the revenue."

I must take issue with this statement.

You're not "giving away" anything, unless you already had it or were clearly entitled to receive it. People obviously disagree on the belief that you are entitled to receive it, in this case.

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Embroidery Piracy and EBay/PayPal Privacy | 127 comments (127 topical) | Post A Comment
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