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Microsoft Anti-Piracy Program Has Hard-Edged EULA | 146 comments (146 topical) | Post A Comment
Never read a EULA[ Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#2)
by Anonymous User on Sat Apr 29, 2006 at 07:13:24 AM PDT

Let's be honest, it's never worth taking the time to read a Microsoft EULA because you have no choice. Windows remains the predominant PC OS; it's already on the box sitting in front of you. MS Office is the standard in the business community and most ancillary MS products are embedded in the OS, so you can't not accept their installation. If you see something that you don't like in the EULA, what are you going to do about it? You literally have no choice, whether you like it or not, whether it makes sense or not. So, save yorself some time and just click Agree. Go ahead and give up your first born child... Hmmm, maybe that's part of the MSoft solution to the forecast shortage of developers a decade hence...

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Hmm[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#3)
by Anonymous User on Sun Apr 30, 2006 at 05:58:05 AM PDT

Someone should deliberately and flagrantly violate this MS EULA, advertise the fact widely, and when they get sued, argue that MS EULAs are unenforceable contracts of adhesion. A blatantly unfair EULA in a de-facto monopoly's product will be a relatively easy case and opens the way to invalidating more and more onerous EULAs.

If need be, the suit could even be brought proactively by the consumer -- surely attempting to shove a very one-sided contract of adhesion down someone's throat constitites grounds for some kind of legal action in itself?

Of course, we need a reasonably well-to-do philanthropic volunteer...

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A Test Case?[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#4)
by Ed Foster on Sun Apr 30, 2006 at 11:48:10 AM PDT

Interesting idea. If someone can devise a credible benchmark test that would provide worthwhile results, I'd be more than happy to run it and publish the results without asking Microsoft's permission. -- Ed Foster

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Well, what's the supposed benfit of this?[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#5)
by Anonymous User on Sun Apr 30, 2006 at 12:19:43 PM PDT

I guess one test would be installing it on a genuine windows, and on one or more pirated versions (obtaining this is of course a problematic issue) and see if WGA does it's job correctly or not. One could also do minor eula violations like installing something other than the pre-loaded version and see if it detects that. Does it impact the performance of de-facto standard benchmarks (not at all familiar with these, but 3dmark, pcmark etc?)
But I think the important thing with this and a lot of other clauses is "selective enforcement", just another nice to have tool to bludgeon disobedient customers.

Besides, would anyone really expend the resources of fighting a full-scale microsoft funded lawyer fishing expedition lasting possibly for years?

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Any test will do...[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#8)
by Anonymous User on Tue May 02, 2006 at 11:59:53 AM PDT

You know, Ed, the EULA doesn't specify that the test be meaningful, valid, or even accurate. It also doesn't differentiate between positive and negative conclusions.

So, for example: "CPU core temperatures did not significantly increase after installation, thereby proving that the WGA software does not affect performance and must be a really great thing to have. To ensure validity, temperature changes were compared with running CAD software, and graphics intense games, both of which did increase the CPU core temperature."

The above ridiculous example would be just as much a violation of Microsoft's ridiculous EULA as any other benchmark or conclusion. If Microsoft doesn't enforce it's EULA, I believe a case could be made about selective enforcement, or malicious prosecution, or that MS abandoned the EULA.

I believe the whole EULA nightmare boils down to the following question: Who owns my desktop? I have a receipt for it... doesn't that mean I own it?



Dave

Linux -- The windows patch that works!



[ Parent | Reply to This ]


Re: Any test will do...[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#10)
by Ed Foster on Tue May 02, 2006 at 02:00:50 PM PDT

Dave: You're quite right, of course -- I have the Constitutional right to publish even a stupid benchmark without asking Microsoft's permission, and I'd like to think there's not a court in the land that would deny that, no matter what the WGA Notifications EULA says. (But, then again, when you look at what some of our courts have said in cases like the Blizzard/Bnet case, maybe there are some judges who are ready to say that EULAs trump the 1st Amendment.)

The reason I won't publish a stupid benchmark though speaks to why these censorship clauses aren't justified: I won't publish something that I don't believe is worthwhile because I value my credibility. If an honest publicaton does something stupid by mistake, it will correct it when the mistake is pointed out. If a dishonest publication intentionally publishes false benchmarks, there are libel, defamation, misrepresentation and other laws to cover it.

Ed Foster



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re[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#132)
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Re: [ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#29)
by Anonymous User on Sat Mar 15, 2008 at 10:45:28 PM PDT

Good idea. But I use macromedia benchmark test. vpxl|levitra|cialis

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Offer[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#35)
by Anonymous User on Thu May 15, 2008 at 10:38:17 AM PDT

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How about this ...[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#15)
by cutedeedle on Wed May 03, 2006 at 12:27:17 PM PDT

We apply for a grant from the Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation -- such grant would provide services for "disadvantaged" consumers who want to go to arbitration over "difficulties" with computer software and the manufacturers. The grant would cover the cost of the consumer's attorney as well as the cost of going to arbitration. Then ... a poor "disadvantaged" consumer who really didn't understand this new EULA can use the services to take Microsoft through arbitration! Works for me. =;o)
**************************************************** Debugging OSes and program abends from core dumps. OS gens that lasted weeks. Ah, the good old days!
[ Parent | Reply to This ]


Never Read a EULA[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#9)
by Anonymous User on Tue May 02, 2006 at 12:19:41 PM PDT

Yes, it's the predominant OS, yes, it's the standard Office suite. But you do have a choice. I've switched to Linux, it comes with a good Office suite that reads and writes MSoffice formats. Sure there are some things missing (can't burn a DVD movie), but for day-to-day email, word processing, web surfing, spreadsheets, it works just fine.

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yes[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#51)
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fvbh[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#69)
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fgbb[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#74)
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gbvv[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#79)
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gfdd[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#84)
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fdmm[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#91)
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dfgg[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#151)
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Uuuuhhhm what?[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#12)
by Anonymous User on Tue May 02, 2006 at 03:58:26 PM PDT

>Let's be honest, it's never worth taking the
>time to read a Microsoft EULA because you
>have no choice.

Well, I can contradict that quite easily.

I initially selected this WGA Notification thing at Microsoft Update, along with a bunch of other stuff.

It presented me with the EULA. I read it. I did not like the terms, so I cancelled out.

Then I started again and this time did not select WGA Notification.

So, obviously:

1. I did have a choice

2. It was worth reading the EULA, else I would not have known until too late that I didn't want the software

So, in what sense was what you said anything to do with reality?

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There is no way out, and that's the problem.[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#14)
by Anonymous User on Wed May 03, 2006 at 01:58:09 AM PDT

The point is, once you AGREE to the EULA, THERE IS NO WAY OUT. You cannot change your mind at some point - because of some "undocumented" feature that isn't mentioned in the EULA - and reverse it.

PS: it's a bandwidth eater. Do not run on a corporate network unless your backbone is strong. How often does it connect to Microsoft anyway? Is this in the EULA?

The process specifically cannot be stopped, and the program will not let you uninstall (and before you throw Microsoft's "we allow users to uninstall" statement at me... go check it again. It's changed).  

You practically have to do some hackery to remove it... yes, it involves smashing the DMCA to tiny little pieces.

 

[ Parent | Reply to This ]



Microsoft Anti-Piracy Program Has Hard-Edged EULA | 146 comments (146 topical) | Post A Comment
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