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A McAfee Marathon | 148 comments (148 topical) | Post A Comment
I totally agree....[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#21)
by Anonymous User on Mon Nov 13, 2006 at 06:14:22 AM PDT

While the story may be a repeat of the same old thing, the fact that it is a repeat tells you that it's a systematic problem and not just a random bad experience. I have used McAfee products with success for a number of years and have continued to annually upgrade it for "free" when the rebates and store discounts equal out to $0. However, with each upgrade, I've noticed more requirements in registering, more CPU cycles competing with me getting work done and more download time slowing my dial-up. So when I recently bought two new computers (a desktop and a laptop), both preloaded with "trial" versions of McAfee I decided to punt on going that route and uninstalled McAfee and installed Grisoft's AVG products. So far I've been pleased and likely will upgrade to the paid version at some point. Without these repeated postings from contributors telling their horror stories, I probably would have just taken the "easy" route of going with the pre-loaded products.

[ Parent | Reply to This ]


Not so fast; AVG may be getting too big[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#39)
by Anonymous User on Tue Nov 14, 2006 at 04:57:29 PM PDT

AVG may be getting too big for its britches, and starting to succumb to "get big, become evil syndrome" (also notably beginning to afflict Google -- that one will make some serious seismic disturbances when it falls).

I rebooted this afternoon due to creeping system slowdown caused by the usual culprit (Microsoft stuff leaking window handles and memory, particularly Exploder).

When the system came back up I was greeted with something about my free AVG 7.1 expiring soon. WTF? It normally updates itself without any huge fuss. Why is it saying now that it will need manually updating or die shortly after Christmas?

At the Web site I quickly found out why. The update (AVG 7.5) does have a free edition, but it's really not obvious. The following happened at the Web site after clicking the link from the scary warning dialog.

  • The page loaded -- thankfully in Firefox. Too damn many things load stuff in IE even though that is not my "default browser" selection in the system.
  • Prominent are links to pay versions of 7.5, the version being pushed to replace 7.1.
  • Nowhere is there a plain link to the free version, even though that is what I am using and the most likely upgrade path is to the free 7.5 and not a paid one.
  • Browsing about to "downloads", and "products", and "home user", and so forth turns up plenty of links to paid Grisoft products.
  • Searches for e.g. "personal", "free", etc. comes next. The search results pages all look alike, no matter the query: a batch of links to the AVG Faq, with the same title and excerpt text. Blindly I pick the top link and don't see much of interest there.
  • I was going to resort to a Google search scoped on the AVG site when I saw a page looking something like this:

ANTIVIRUS PRODUCTS
This paid software for home users
That for enterprise
Educational discount license blah blah

ANTISPYWARE PRODUCTS
This paid software for home users
That for enterprise
Educational discount license blah blah

FIREWALLS
This paid software for home users
That for enterprise
Educational discount license blah blah

BLAH BLAH
This paid software for home users
That for enterprise
Educational discount license blah blah

YADDA YADDA YADDA
This paid software for home users
That for enterprise
Educational discount license blah blah

<font size=-5 million or so> avg antivirus free edition</font>

Of course, the tiny "free edition" link hidden at the bottom of the page leads to a page with a lot of snazzy box photos and links to paid editions again, with a tiny link to "download free edition". This actually leads not to a .zip or .exe file but a comparison chart with a load of scary red Xs for the free edition. One of these is actually downright misleading -- there's an X for Antispyware, and although the free AVG antivirus lacks antispyware functionality, there's a (separate) free AVG antispyware app. So it's not an outright lie, but it's not really true either -- it just means you need to perform two downloads and installs instead of one to have that feature.

The download itself seems to have worked without a hitch. Once I finally found it, that is.

Point is, they seem to make a big point of trying to:

  • Make people get this particular update from the Web site, where they can
  • Make you unsure there even is a free edition anymore in the hopes that you'll pay -- it wasn't mentioned at all on the landing page.
  • Make it hard to navigate to the free edition
  • Try to upsell you at every turn.

Clearly, they are trying to discourage use of the free edition as much as possible. Pointing to "trial versions" that are timebombed versions of it really takes the cake, though, and they do that pretty much on every page of the site.

I don't recall them doing that when I first got AVG, at least a year ago. It may not have been prominent but they were up front about the existence of a free version and didn't make it intentionally difficult to navigate to it.

This experience makes me suspect that they intend to discontinue offering a free edition at all around 8.0 sometime in 2007, and no doubt they will "sunset" the free 7.5 with the same bothersome dialog box as they sunsetted 7.1.

Unless they make it silently morph into a paid version and start quietly charging a credit card number you didn't even give them, then justify this by saying "We changed this license agreement page on our Web site that nothing at all links to months ago to warn you of this change and give you time to uninstall to opt out!" or some such rot. Well, no, that would require them to descend to Intuit's level in less than a year from being better than McAfee, which would be astonishing even in Internet time. But still...

The really weird thing is that I have seen this sort of deliberately-shoddy Web site navigation idiom before.

On porn sites.

Free porn sites, aside from trying to exploit your browser to install spyware and blasting you with popups, always have a bunch of prominent and relevant-looking links at the top that lead to various pay sites and around in circles, and a single tiny link at the bottom of the third page down some obscure hierarchy that actually goes to some actual image galleries.

(As a rule, they also have the navigation deliberately broken if you disable Javashit so they can blast you with popups and try to hijack your browser into installing spyware. Images sometimes hide behind individual captchas -- not to stop automated ripping, though that's what they'll claim, oh no. A script running on the server detects a visitor's loaded a page with a captcha and requests a comment posting form from a blog site that uses captchas, then feeds the captcha right through. The visitor dutifully solves the captcha and submits it, and the script submits the solution along with linkspam to the blog in turn. If the blog posting succeeds, the visitor, unaware of any of this backend functionality, gets to see the nudie pics. And of course some "free" sites lure you deep in with tease pictures and a nesting tree of gallery links, the leaves of which ask for a credit card number for "age verification". Yeah, right. It's funny that although it's damned weak for "age verification" (like nobody's ever borrowed Daddy's credit card, especially when they only have to copy the number down onto some paper without actually taking the physical card at all to do so) it just happens to be perfect for charging someone money. No doubt enough of those they rip off are too embarrassed to question the bogus charges and involve the police, or even request a chargeback. And they probably don't just ding it once, but sell the number on the black market or something...)

So, tell me why a reputable company like AVG with a stellar product (and even free editions) is resorting to tactics copied from such reputable companies as freeanalasiansxxx.com?

(It's also worth noting that if you visit one of these porn sites and get infected with something, then buy a paid version of AVG to get disinfected, both profit. Hmm. Strange bedfellows?)

So, while AVG so far works far better and has a free personal-use version, I am unconvinced that this will last given the events of today. The use of navigational metaphors pioneered by the likes of freesexplosionarchive.com isn't exactly encouraging, and that's just for starters. Breaking from the background auto-updating model to push users to the Web site has to be part of a funding drive of sorts -- a certain percentage will quickly give up looking for a free upgrade and a certain fraction of those will, in turn, settle for a pay version because AVG's worked well in the past. Of course, people who can see more than one move ahead will realize that once they know they can do that to you they will commence tightening the screws, and that this is usually just the first step down the same road AOL and the like have taken, will move on elsewhere or persist until they find the free version they cleverly hid ...

Heck, I'm not even sure that there's a specific page that links to the free version at all. Most of the pages I saw before finding it were either the useless FAQ page, the useless SERP, or one of several very similar product list pages. It turned up eventually at the very bottom of one of those. I wonder if these are static pages at all with the free link at the bottom of one, or if the server uses a script to generate everything and coughs up a product catalog page with a free edition link, reluctantly, only after you've requested n pages from them first and still not bitten at any of the prominently advertised pay products...


[ Parent | Reply to This ]



free.grisoft.com[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#40)
by wantobe on Tue Nov 14, 2006 at 06:04:26 PM PDT

For at least 2 years now I haven't been able to find a clear link to their free version from their main page, but I go directly to free.grisoft.com to download the free version. AVG is still a kick-a$$ antivirus, and is the least expensive of the bunch even for the paid version. I don't fault them for wanting to make money, but I too would like them to make the free version a little easier to find.
Rob Miles
--
There are 10 kinds of people in the world; those who understand binary and those who don't.
[ Parent | Reply to This ]


No problem here[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#46)
by Garminski on Mon Nov 20, 2006 at 03:07:49 PM PDT

I also received the notice that AVG was sunsetting it's free 7.1 version for the new 7.5 version and that you needed to upgrade by early next year.  They had a link on the notice in the lower left corner (as I remember) to click for more information.I clicked on it and it took me to a page where there was very clearly an option to download the new free version of 7.5 AVG.  They had a lot of stuff there that you could buy but the free version was there if you just looked.  The upgrade process was very easy and painless.

[ Parent | Reply to This ]


Hrm[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#47)
by Anonymous User on Mon Nov 20, 2006 at 06:27:52 PM PDT

Curious. There was no prominent link to the free version when I did the same. It existed and installed painlessly, but it took some scrounging to find a link first.

Perhaps they read this gripe and changed it in the past few days? :)

[ Parent | Reply to This ]



RE: Hrm[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#51)
by Garminski on Tue Nov 21, 2006 at 11:50:39 AM PDT

I don't think so. I did this late last week or so. I was writing this from memory but I would have sworn that on the "splash page" that AVG supplied I clicked on a link and from that point on it was very easy to get the new free version.

[ Parent | Reply to This ]


AVG[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#55)
by Anonymous User on Fri Nov 24, 2006 at 03:29:00 PM PDT

After that other comment was posted, though?

[ Parent | Reply to This ]


No but...[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#59)
by Garminski on Tue Nov 28, 2006 at 06:13:27 PM PDT

No, I did upgrade my AVG before the other comment was posted.  However, I was operating from memory and the actual process was a bit more complicated then I remembered.  Here is what you have to do:

Click on the "See our full product list" line on the lower right side of the 7.5 warning page.

On the next screen goto the bottom under the Free Security heading and click on  the link "AVG Anti-Virus Free Edition".

On the next screen goto the Download section and click on "AVG Free Advisor website"

On the next screen click on "AVG Anti-Virus-Free" link.

Then click on "Download free version"  Select the version you want and click on it to download.

Simple as that, right?

Ok, so the original poster of this thread had more of a point then I remembered.  While I was able to get what I wanted by following what I considered at the time to be a reasonable path (I must of been real tired) it was much more difficult then it had to be.  All along the way you have multiple opportunities to purchase AVG, but you have to go through some hoops to get the free one.  AVG could have made this much easier and still given people a chance to purchase the product.

[ Parent | Reply to This ]



Wow ![ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#48)
by In my humble opinion on Mon Nov 20, 2006 at 07:26:42 PM PDT

Do you have a blog ? It must be pretty good if you write this much for a comment posting. It was entertaining...

[ Parent | Reply to This ]


Nope.[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#54)
by Anonymous User on Fri Nov 24, 2006 at 03:28:15 PM PDT

Nope.

[ Parent | Reply to This ]


yes[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#79)
by maderikapapa on Sat Jun 28, 2008 at 12:41:04 AM PDT

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[ Parent | Reply to This ]


fvbh[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#90)
by Anonymous User on Wed Oct 22, 2008 at 05:20:52 AM PDT

SEXlink1

[ Parent | Reply to This ]


fgbb[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#93)
by Anonymous User on Thu Oct 23, 2008 at 07:34:51 AM PDT

,ff,,,f*f不倫

[ Parent | Reply to This ]


gbvv[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#97)
by Anonymous User on Fri Oct 24, 2008 at 05:46:47 AM PDT

,fff,fff^出会,,

[ Parent | Reply to This ]


gfdd[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#99)
by Anonymous User on Sat Oct 25, 2008 at 05:09:40 AM PDT

出会,,,ff,,素人

[ Parent | Reply to This ]


fgkk[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#103)
by Anonymous User on Sun Oct 26, 2008 at 05:39:18 AM PDT

,fff巨乳熟女

[ Parent | Reply to This ]


fdmm[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#107)
by Anonymous User on Mon Oct 27, 2008 at 07:49:02 AM PDT

,ffff"f,,ff,,童貞

[ Parent | Reply to This ]


fbvd[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#111)
by Anonymous User on Tue Oct 28, 2008 at 07:34:24 AM PDT

童貞,f*ffff`

[ Parent | Reply to This ]


gfmm[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#115)
by Anonymous User on Wed Oct 29, 2008 at 06:56:19 AM PDT

,fff^,f不倫

[ Parent | Reply to This ]


fdgg[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#119)
by Anonymous User on Fri Oct 31, 2008 at 06:44:44 AM PDT

SEX,ff,,おっぱ,,

[ Parent | Reply to This ]


ffgb[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#123)
by Anonymous User on Sat Nov 01, 2008 at 06:54:05 AM PDT

不倫熟女,fff風--

[ Parent | Reply to This ]


fkoo[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#127)
by Anonymous User on Sun Nov 02, 2008 at 07:39:09 AM PDT

,ff,,SEX逆援

[ Parent | Reply to This ]


okmm[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#131)
by Anonymous User on Mon Nov 03, 2008 at 06:49:36 AM PDT

不倫童貞ff',

[ Parent | Reply to This ]


jdhh[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#135)
by Anonymous User on Tue Nov 04, 2008 at 05:10:16 AM PDT

,f*f熟女,fff

[ Parent | Reply to This ]


mkoo[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#139)
by Anonymous User on Tue Nov 04, 2008 at 11:21:58 PM PDT

人妻,f*f,ff,,

[ Parent | Reply to This ]


gfbb[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#143)
by Anonymous User on Fri Nov 07, 2008 at 12:02:45 AM PDT

,fff^,f熟女

[ Parent | Reply to This ]


fvbb[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#147)
by Anonymous User on Sat Nov 08, 2008 at 01:41:04 AM PDT

人妻,fff不倫

[ Parent | Reply to This ]


ggfd[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#151)
by Anonymous User on Sun Nov 09, 2008 at 04:45:40 AM PDT

,fff^SEX逆援

[ Parent | Reply to This ]


kajj[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#157)
by Anonymous User on Wed Nov 12, 2008 at 08:13:36 PM PDT

,f,f*f,fff

[ Parent | Reply to This ]


djnn[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#163)
by Anonymous User on Mon Nov 24, 2008 at 12:06:48 AM PDT

,fff^,ff,,巨乳

[ Parent | Reply to This ]


A McAfee Marathon | 148 comments (148 topical) | Post A Comment
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