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Botnet Spam Getting Out of Hand | 71 comments (71 topical) | Post A Comment
???? Please explain[ Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#1)
by Anonymous User on Fri Nov 03, 2006 at 01:20:36 AM PDT

Can someone first explain what a Botnet is and how it works?

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If only...[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#2)
by wantobe on Fri Nov 03, 2006 at 03:46:42 AM PDT

If only there were a website where you could enter a word or two about some subject and it would search all the web pages and return links that relate to that subject. Man, I bet I could make millions if I were to invent something like that. I could call it a search site (or something like that).

Try this link: Google
Rob Miles
--
There are 10 kinds of people in the world; those who understand binary and those who don't.
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and it's...[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#3)
by Anonymous User on Fri Nov 03, 2006 at 05:50:17 AM PDT

...people like you why people don't even want to learn abuot this kind of thing.  Arrogant Jerks with horrible attitudes who respond to simple questions with A-hole responses, exactly like yours, is what convinces people not to even bother.

Try being part of the solution rather than the problem.

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Insert subject here[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#9)
by Anonymous User on Fri Nov 03, 2006 at 11:19:50 AM PDT

Yeah, it's so hard to google what you're curious about. It's much harder than blaming your ignorance and laziness on the other person while tossing in a brisk personal attack and assuming a tone of unwarranted moral superiority.

Being hypersensitive about "face" online Does Not Work. Especially when you're the one who caused your own loss of face.

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Grow up people[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#12)
by Anonymous User on Fri Nov 03, 2006 at 03:05:55 PM PDT

I love how people like to spend more time ripping someone for asking a question than they would if they just answered the question.

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Didn't you notice?[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#15)
by wantobe on Fri Nov 03, 2006 at 06:19:20 PM PDT

Maybe I'm an asshole (though, really, didn't the gently chiding tone come through?), but I did provide the answer for the original poster too. Well, I provided a link to the Google search.

Lighten up, guys. I got to be sarcastic, the original poster got his answer. Everyone's happy!


Rob Miles
--
There are 10 kinds of people in the world; those who understand binary and those who don't.
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Actually,[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#27)
by Anonymous User on Sun Nov 05, 2006 at 04:35:50 AM PDT

No maybe about it

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Please go away[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#29)
by Anonymous User on Mon Nov 06, 2006 at 09:27:53 AM PDT

The time you put into being a jerk could have instead been used to answer the question and not make people avoid posting messages in this forum out of fear of being attacked by people like you.

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The Silent Majority Did...[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#32)
by In my humble opinion on Mon Nov 06, 2006 at 05:13:09 PM PDT

...but a vocal minority took issue with your sharp wit. Perhaps they only have half of your wit...

I thought your response was quite crisp. Green light for the next wave of complaints. Apologies for the use of free speech.

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Great Article, i agreee with you[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#78)
by Anonymous User on Mon Sep 01, 2008 at 10:48:10 PM PDT

dis j'ai jamais vu de poisson sans ouies........et avec une forme pareille.......Internet Marketing 迷你倉 護膚 .

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22[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#75)
by Anonymous User on Thu Aug 07, 2008 at 06:45:31 AM PDT

Free YouTube Downloader | YouTube to iPod | YouTube on PSP | YouTube to MP3 | YouTube to MP4 | YouTube to 3GP | YouTube to AVI | YouTube to MPEG | YouTube to WMV | YouTube to DivX | YouTube to XviD | YouTube to MOV | YouTube to WMA | YouTube Ripper YouTube to iPod | YouTube to iPhone | YouTube to PSP | YouTube to Zune | YouTube to MP4 | YouTube to Apple TV | YouTube to H.264 | YouTube to 3GP

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Rob Miles - Try This Link[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#33)
by Anonymous User on Mon Nov 06, 2006 at 09:44:43 PM PDT

Rob Miles - Try This Link

http://www.google.com/search?q=ButtHead&btnG=Google+Search

Results: 1 found

Did you mean Rob Miles is a Butt Head? (1,523,846)?

All meaningful results displayed. Caching unnecessary.


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so many Anons out there[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#43)
by Anonymous User on Thu Nov 09, 2006 at 08:52:30 AM PDT

Amazing that only one person had the guts to use his name in the previous posts. Hats off to Rob for fearlessness ... the rest of you whiners ... could any one of you have explained a botnet? Guess not.

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Eh?[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#51)
by Anonymous User on Thu Nov 09, 2006 at 08:00:20 PM PDT

You're one to talk, "Anonymous User"!

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Spam solution?[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#24)
by Anonymous User on Sat Nov 04, 2006 at 02:21:23 PM PDT

Perhaps Ed should have gone into greater detail; but it seems to me he made it fairly clear that the link to Felten's blog post leads to more info.

Botnets are actually just about peaking. Consumers are, increasingly, locking down their machines (though prompted by more visible infections of more overt viruses and spyware), and newer computers and operating systems have had firewall capabilities and the like shipping with them and enabled by default for a while. As older, infected machines are replaced botnets will start weakening. Common malicious outbound traffic patterns might become targets for filtering by ISPs (hopefully without impacting user-desired traffic, such as p2p, but we know how likely the ISPs are to disrupt that intentionally and then blame it on spam filtering...) and e-mail itself might be superseded by a pseudonymous, sender-machine-address-authenticated form of mail.

Or we might simply see a rise in webmails and forwarding services that will do something like this:

Alice sends Bob an email, to his address at Gmail or a forwarding service or whatever. The service has no record of Alice as one of Bob's contacts, and as a result, the message isn't simply sent on for Bob to read yet. Instead, an autoreply is sent to Alice that directs her to the service's Web site. Once there she encounters a captcha. If she proves she's human, the message is released from quarantine and future messages from Alice to Bob encounter no obstacles. Unless of course Bob tells the service to block Alice or put her back on "probation".

This requires some way to identify Alice, so the system would require the captcha authentication for every message with any irregularity in the Received: header fields or no reverse lookup on the source IP. Otherwise, after one message is allowed through, future messages coming from the same IP sharing the same From: are passed through.

The effects on spam are as follows:
1. Spam sent directly from a consumer broadband address, generally from bot-infected PCs, produces a reply email that probably bounces (the errors-to or whatever address is phony), and nobody shows up and passes the captcha within the requisite time (say, one week). After a few such failures from the same source IP, it's blanket-blocked by the forwarding service and the spam doesn't even cost that service much anymore. None of it reaches a potential buyer/scam-victim/whatever.
Some of this spam may also be blocked by an ISP blocking outbound traffic whose destination port is 25 and source IP is a customer's machine (regardless of source port).

2. Spam sent via an ISP's mail exchange gateway is susceptible to being blocked readily by the ISP, which can terminate accounts misused to send spam through its gateway in the traditional manner. "Spamhaus" ISPs (ISPs that let users spam with impunity) get blacklisted as usual on the wider 'net. The forwarding services and webmails block them entirely, or filter most of the spam with the captcha and the few where the spammer actually deigns to authenticate as a human get someone mad who then has that sender blocked from sending to them. If too many combinations of from and IP with the same IP are blocked or captcha'd the ISP may be told to shape up or be blanket-blocked altogether.

Notice that none of the above depends in any way, shape, or form on filtering (bayesian or otherwise) that might produce false positives. The only "false positives" occur when people send mail but either use a bogus reply-to or don't bother to verify they're human the one time. The mail can't have been that important, then, can it?

(For the record, mail sent to report spam using "abuse.net" did an authentication thing like this for a long time, and perhaps still does. It didn't use a captcha; it just authenticated that the message had a valid reply-to before whitelisting that sender from then on. Otherwise the service could have been abused to spam sysadmins. Adding a captcha makes it even more robust.)

The long term result is especially interesting. Spammers have to either jump through hoops (per infected source machine!) to get their spam to its recipient, or the spam is blackholed without ever being seen by human eyes. Spam doesn't pay once it gets very little visibility and costs more time and effort to send at all. Spam itself would then decrease, and botnets devalue as this particular use decreased, and the costs to the mail filtering places would further decrease. In the long run, everybody wins -- except, of course, the spammers.

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UGH! - Another Challenge-response idea[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#36)
by Anonymous User on Tue Nov 07, 2006 at 02:44:23 PM PDT

C-R does not work. In fact, it is a form of spam and increases network traffic. 1. Most spam is sent with a forged return address. Upon hitting a C-R ("captcha") system, a challenge will be sent back to the forged address, not to the spammer. This can result in hundreds or thousands of "challenges" send to someone whose e-mail was forged into a spam run. This makes C-R, itself, spam. 2. What happens when a C-R request is sent to another machine using C-R? Perhaps as a result of a forgery? Answer should be obvious.

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Eh[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#38)
by Anonymous User on Tue Nov 07, 2006 at 08:19:26 PM PDT

A naive implementation will certainly have problems. No disagreement there. But that doesn't mean that no implementation will ever work.

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Botnet Spam Getting Out of Hand | 71 comments (71 topical) | Post A Comment
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