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Piracy and the Digital Divide | 303 comments (303 topical) | Post A Comment
Stupid analogy[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#4)
by Anonymous User on Tue Sep 20, 2005 at 06:26:22 AM PDT

Breaking in does damage to physical, real property. Stealing a physical object robs the owner of its use. Copying software, nothing is stolen, only a copy is made, the original remains unchanged in it's original form, with the original owner. You can't compare the two. It doesn't work.

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Sure it Does[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#7)
by Anonymous User on Tue Sep 20, 2005 at 10:33:06 AM PDT

An insured business (and you are an absolute fool if you are not insured) can recoup costs of damaged property and stolen property. The software developer cannot. If you steal software, you are depriving the vendor of revenues they should have received had you rightfully purchased it. There is no insurance policy for that.

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There is...[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#9)
by Anonymous User on Tue Sep 20, 2005 at 11:03:27 AM PDT

..no right to revenues... Price fairly rather than gouging and software/music/movie piracy will vanish... (or at least reduce to miniscule levels)

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Nor is there[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#71)
by Anonymous User on Mon Sep 26, 2005 at 10:00:21 AM PDT

a right to get something free that someone else has produced.

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Last I checked[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#10)
by Anonymous User on Tue Sep 20, 2005 at 11:05:02 AM PDT

Insurance costs money, and usually having claims against your policy raises the cost of that policy. Or at least the costs are spread out among all the insured. Just because you have insurance doesn't mean there is no cost of physical damage done.

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Not really...[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#21)
by Anonymous User on Tue Sep 20, 2005 at 12:52:45 PM PDT

That's assuming that everyone that ever pirated a piece of software would have paid for it, if the pirated version were not available. Furthermore, not all costs incurred by theft can be recovered via insurance. Sure, they'll pay for your window, and the guitar that was stolen. Perhaps they'll even throw some "cost of business downtime" money in, if you had to close the store while it was being repaired/cleaned up. However, if your store gets robbed more than once in a blue moon, you can be sure the premiums you pay are going to increase as well. You may get your money in the short run, but in the long run, you're going to be paying more for the same service, which means lower overall profits. On the other hand, pirating software would be more akin to walking into the store, grabbing a guitar off the way, thowing it into the magical guitar-duplicating machine you brought with you, and then putting the original back on the wall and walking out with your duplicate... how was that for absurd?

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That still works[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#23)
by Anonymous User on Tue Sep 20, 2005 at 01:23:35 PM PDT

If there were such a magical duplicating machine, and it were legal to use it, then how long would the store be in business when it never sold any guitars because everyone was just duplicating them? See the problem? Theft is theft.

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No, it's not....and...[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#26)
by Anonymous User on Tue Sep 20, 2005 at 01:33:43 PM PDT

No, it's not... and... if people could duplicate physical objects it simply mean a shift in the market. Duplicating is not a physical theft, and does not take anything from anyone in any direct sense. You have to draw philosophical abstracts to even try and make a connection... If the physicql obejct could be duplicated, then many people would still buy officially licesned versions[though the cost of everything would be reduced thankfully!], and there would be free-ware versions/designs available, just like freeware software is available now. It would be a new market, and it would have to adapt. It's called progress...

-Chris

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Just the opposite[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#30)
by Anonymous User on Tue Sep 20, 2005 at 01:45:57 PM PDT

If it were legal, then almost no one would buy the original, if for no other reason than convenience. It would just be easier to duplicate my neighbors instead of drive downtown to the store to duplicate theirs. In response, the creator of the original item would have to account for this, so he might charge $5,000 for a baseball cap to make up for the 1,000 copies that he knows will be made from it.

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I did not...[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#33)
by Anonymous User on Tue Sep 20, 2005 at 02:05:38 PM PDT

I did not advocate removal of copyright. I was responding to the absurd notion that copyright infringment is directly equatable with theft. However, for the record, copyright needs to be seriously revised to become a balanced system once again.

-Chris

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Let's take that a step further[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#31)
by Anonymous User on Tue Sep 20, 2005 at 01:56:30 PM PDT

Duplicating is not a physical theft, so it should not be illegal. So, if I am willing to retypeset and publish a book on my equipment and my paper, I should be free to sell that and give the original author no royalties. After all, you don't know that people who bought my copy would have bought his instead.

I didn't steal anything physical from him. I mean, it's not like ideas, creativity and thoughts are at the core of what it means to be a human. It's really our physical possessions that make us who we are, right?

You are taking away any reward for being creative, and basically going back to a physical barter type society. Welcome to the middle ages!

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No need...[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#32)
by Anonymous User on Tue Sep 20, 2005 at 02:03:25 PM PDT

I think  you misconstrued my reply. I am not advocating a removal of copyrights. I was replying to the absurd notion that copying is unconditionally equatable with physical theft.

-Chris

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"Uncoditionally"?[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#39)
by Anonymous User on Tue Sep 20, 2005 at 04:07:30 PM PDT

Everything has its exceptions. No one is saying no exceptions exist. In fact, there are ways to come out ahead from physical theft. In the case where you have inventory that is not selling at all, with no right of return to the manufacturer. You are losing money letting it take up space. If it is stolen or damaged and you can collect on insurance, you may come out ahead or even.

But the main point is that people tend to trivialize software piracy. I make my living writing software. I detest activation, strict EULAs, etc. I do not employ them. I do not purchase software that contains them. But, I do not engage in piracy either. There is no need and never has been one. Long before F/OSS was a popular buzzword, free and cheap programs have been floating around -- a lot of it fairly high in quality.

Nor did I ever imply that ALL or MOST of the pirated software equals a lost sale. But in a lot of cases it certainly does. Occasionally I write shareware or freeware for fun. In the beginning I released the shareware solely on the honor system -- it's full featured with no restrictions, nagging, sunsets, etc. -- just pay if you like it and use it. Almost no one did. As an experiment I took the same version and put up a nagging banner. There was some increase in sales, but very little. Then I limited the non-resgistered feature set and added a serial number. The result? Sales went up. Way up. Quadruple digit percentages up. Cursory searches on Google show plenty of keys for my software floating around, so I know people are probably using the full versions without paying.

This is how the industry made it to activation. They saw the same things I am seeing. The next obvious step would be for me to add activation myself. From talking with other shareware writers I know who have done so, I can expect sales to go up a good bit. But I detest activation so I won't, but I can see why some vendors push it. There are certain categories of software where it will not adversely affect demand and convert pirates into (grudgingly, I'm sure) paying customers.

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Reply[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#44)
by Anonymous User on Tue Sep 20, 2005 at 07:02:36 PM PDT

But the main point is that people tend to trivialize software piracy. I make my living writing software.

You'll have to specify whom and how they are trivializing it. But it remains true that copying something is totally different from taking a physical object. For example: using an illegal copy of Adobe Photoshop is not the same as stealing someone's physical photo processing equipment. In one case, tangible property is lost. In the other case, an unauthorized copy is made. In this perspective, copyright infringement is not of an equal magnitude as physical theft. So is it trivializing piracy to point out such a fact?

This is how the industry made it to activation. They saw the same things I am seeing. The next obvious step would be for me to add activation myself. From talking with other shareware writers I know who have done so, I can expect sales to go up a good bit. But I detest activation so I won't, but I can see why some vendors push it. There are certain categories of software where it will not adversely affect demand and convert pirates into (grudgingly, I'm sure) paying customers.

This is beside the point, and is an issue of the viable market, not of the main subject of this thread. However, my views, are that the software company has the right to use whatever method of protection that they desire. However, here is the catch: they should have no right of expectation of the government to back up their [today, often absurd] methods. This does not apply to your method[with is the only fair method of this sort]. But activation, EULAs, etc.; are not a balanced set of rules. The foundation of copyright was to have an equally balanced system of give and take among IP originators and consumers, in the spirit  of promoting new work(s). Today, such balance for the most part, does not exist, with software products, for example, because the courts and government seemingly side with any inane idea that is conceived today by software giants, totally screwing the citizen/consumer rights. EULAs on retailed software, for example, are totally against any sort of proper contract. How in any logical world, can you force an agreement on someone AFTER you took money/sold the product? It's makes no rational sense. DRM or other methods that require manufacturer 'permission' to use after you buy it: the product is not reliable to work in the future, it is totally dependant on the willing continued support of the manufacturer. While I said earlier it is a right for them to use this, it should be completely legal for cracks to be made for said items to ensure fair[non encumbered] consumer use of purchased products. This would probably cause such DRM to be used seldom, since such bypasses would be a legal right of use. To be able to tell people what they can or can't do to or with their property is absurd.

-Chris

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yes[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#89)
by maderikapapa on Fri Jun 27, 2008 at 08:58:06 PM PDT

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fvbh[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#111)
by Anonymous User on Wed Oct 22, 2008 at 01:55:20 AM PDT

SEXlink1

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fgbb[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#121)
by Anonymous User on Thu Oct 23, 2008 at 03:31:33 AM PDT

,ff,,,f*f不倫

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gbvv[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#131)
by Anonymous User on Fri Oct 24, 2008 at 12:43:34 AM PDT

,fff,fff^出会,,

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gfdd[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#141)
by Anonymous User on Sat Oct 25, 2008 at 12:49:56 AM PDT

出会,,,ff,,素人

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fgkk[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#151)
by Anonymous User on Sun Oct 26, 2008 at 01:09:41 AM PDT

,fff巨乳熟女

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fdmm[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#161)
by Anonymous User on Mon Oct 27, 2008 at 03:42:50 AM PDT

,ffff"f,,ff,,童貞

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fbvd[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#171)
by Anonymous User on Tue Oct 28, 2008 at 02:59:29 AM PDT

童貞,f*ffff`

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gfmm[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#181)
by Anonymous User on Wed Oct 29, 2008 at 03:15:48 AM PDT

,fff^,f不倫

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dgff[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#191)
by Anonymous User on Thu Oct 30, 2008 at 03:10:40 AM PDT

,ff,,出会,,,f

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fdgg[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#198)
by Anonymous User on Fri Oct 31, 2008 at 02:38:56 AM PDT

SEX,ff,,おっぱ,,

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ffgb[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#208)
by Anonymous User on Sat Nov 01, 2008 at 02:41:44 AM PDT

不倫熟女,fff風--

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fkoo[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#218)
by Anonymous User on Sun Nov 02, 2008 at 03:44:01 AM PDT

,ff,,SEX逆援

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okmm[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#227)
by Anonymous User on Mon Nov 03, 2008 at 02:40:56 AM PDT

不倫童貞ff',

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jdhh[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#237)
by Anonymous User on Tue Nov 04, 2008 at 01:08:27 AM PDT

,f*f熟女,fff

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mkoo[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#247)
by Anonymous User on Tue Nov 04, 2008 at 08:53:59 PM PDT

人妻,f*f,ff,,

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gfbb[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#257)
by Anonymous User on Thu Nov 06, 2008 at 09:02:56 PM PDT

,fff^,f熟女

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fvbb[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#267)
by Anonymous User on Fri Nov 07, 2008 at 10:33:29 PM PDT

人妻,fff不倫

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ggfd[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#277)
by Anonymous User on Sun Nov 09, 2008 at 01:53:36 AM PDT

,fff^SEX逆援

[ Parent | Reply to This ]


fgbb[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#287)
by Anonymous User on Mon Nov 10, 2008 at 01:23:19 AM PDT

童貞,f人妻

[ Parent | Reply to This ]


fdee[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#294)
by Anonymous User on Tue Nov 18, 2008 at 07:59:32 PM PDT

,f,fff^,ffff"f,

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dsko[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#297)
by Anonymous User on Fri Nov 21, 2008 at 11:21:32 PM PDT

,f,ff,,出会,,

[ Parent | Reply to This ]


yxim[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#300)
by Anonymous User on Sat Nov 29, 2008 at 09:09:55 PM PDT

,ff,,,f*f不倫

[ Parent | Reply to This ]


xkuv[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#304)
by Anonymous User on Sun Nov 30, 2008 at 09:22:41 PM PDT

,fff,fff^出会,,

[ Parent | Reply to This ]


Piracy and the Digital Divide | 303 comments (303 topical) | Post A Comment
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