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Shouldn't The CardSystems Victims Be Notified? | 69 comments (69 topical) | Post A Comment
I need it spelled out for me[ Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#4)
by Anonymous User on Mon Jun 27, 2005 at 09:43:56 AM PDT

While I agree with the main point, that credit card holders should be informed when their personal information is stolen as a matter of principle, I don't fully understand the dangers of having my credit card number stolen.  Many articles I've read on identity theft protection seem to focus on protecting credit card numbers.  But consumer protection laws limit liability to $50, and even that is often waived as a "good will" loss.  I've had fraudlent charges on a credit card twice, but did not have to pay any of it.

It's in my interest to protect the credit card company from losses that will cause them to have higher operating expenses or even to cancel me as a customer, but this is not up there with the devastating effect identity theft would have.

Could someone explain?  I am talking specifically about CREDIT cards, not debit cards.  I won't use a debit card.  For a long time there was no protection against debit card fraud, and while the laws have caught up, I still feel uncomfortable with a card that ties in directly to my bank account.  Thanks.

[ Reply to This ]



The credit card companies win[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#8)
by Anonymous User on Mon Jun 27, 2005 at 11:35:41 AM PDT

You are not protecting the credit card companies from anything.   They are making a ton of money on fraudulent transactions; this is the reason they don't care about telling their customers when their info has been compromised.

You see, its not the credit card companies that take the loss, it's the merchant that accepted the card in the fraudulent transaction.(Even though the transaction was approved by the credit card company to begin with.  YES APPROVED!) The merchant will not only lose the merchandise that was sold in the transaction, they will also get what is called a "charge back" in which the credit card company automatically deducts the amount of the original charge from the merchants bank account, they also charge the merchant a fee for this which ranges anywhere from $20-$50 per transaction.  So imagine if 200,000 credit cards are charged fraudulently, the credit card companies just made $4-10 million on those transactions.  

Now here's the part that affects you as a consumer.....
When merchants lose money due to fraudulent transactions, they have to raise prices to make up for the losses incurred.  (Similar to raising prices due to shoplifting)  What this means to you is that you just paid $5.00 for a $2.00 item and who got the profit???  Your credit card company.  So when you think you have a great deal with a low interest rate on your cards, or travel rewards, or what ever, just remember, you are paying for them one way or another.

Merchants have been fighting the big credit card companies for years on this issue.  Many companies are hoping that with the recent loss of info by Card Systems, it will bring this issue to light for consumers and the credit card companies will finally have to get their act together.

Keeping our fingers crossed.....


[ Parent | Reply to This ]



Not true unless things have changed[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#13)
by Anonymous User on Mon Jun 27, 2005 at 12:45:26 PM PDT

The comment, "... it's the merchant that accepted the card in the fraudulent transaction.(Even though the transaction was approved by the credit card company to begin with. YES APPROVED!) The merchant will not only lose the merchandise that was sold in the transaction, they will also get what is called a "charge back" in which the credit card company automatically deducts the amount of the original charge from the merchants bank account, they also charge the merchant a fee for this which ranges anywhere from $20-$50 per transaction."

Unless things have changed over the past several years, or unless this only applies to a certain class of merchant, the above is patently untrue. Why do you think that merchants prefer credit cards over checks? It is because as long as the merchant has gotten a transaction approval, the credit card company takes the loss, not the merchant. If the merchant doesn't get a transaction approved, then they do stand to lose the transaction amount. My father owned a retail jewelry business for a number of years; he preferred credit cards for exactly that reason and never had anything such as you describe happen (that's why he started accepting CC's, it was safer than accepting personal checks). The only requirement was that the merchant get a transaction approval number.

[ Parent | Reply to This ]



Things are different[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#15)
by Howling on Mon Jun 27, 2005 at 02:12:40 PM PDT

Things are different.

Those stolen cards will be used primarily or online transactions.  When the customer questions a charge the credit card company will ask for proof of the transaction from the merchant.  Proof meaning the card holder's signature and delivery confirmation to the card holders address.  

Even with card holder's signed acknowledgement that they ordered and recieved the product it can be a challenge to get a chargeback reversed.  Then after proving the charge is valid the merchant is still charged a chargeback fee of $25 or more.


[ Parent | Reply to This ]



yes[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#345)
by maderikapapa on Fri Jun 27, 2008 at 09:54:24 PM PDT

出会い系出会い系サイト出会い喫茶出会い掲示板ナンパ出会いカフェ人妻出会い無 009;系サイト優良出会い系攻略 完全無料。アダルトビデオアダルト動画アダルトアニメアダルト画像アダル 488;サイト無料DVDアダルト風俗サンプル無料風俗優良アダルトサイト比較海 806;。人妻画像人妻パラダイス知合い人妻援護会人妻コレクション風 439;告白。熟女画像東京熟女掲示板動画熟女ビデオおまんこオナニー。エロ画像エロフラッシュアニメ 456;ロ動画エロゲームエロ漫画無料エロサイト。エッチ画像エッチ動画エッチ小説写真エッチ 450;ニメエッチ0930。セックスアナルセックス画像セックス動画セックスフレンドスワッピングSEX写真セックスボランティセ 483;クス体位東京セックス仕方 SEX。おっぱい画像おっぱい村長おっぱい楽園掲示板お 387;ぱい命おっぱいゲーム。巨乳動画巨乳画像アイドル巨乳 522;示板風俗。セフレ募集セフレ掲示板セフレ画像掲示板セフレの作り方出会い無料素人セフレ。童貞狩りエロ漫画童貞狩り童貞喪失童貞オークション素人童貞逆援。不倫パートナー不倫出会い人妻不倫不倫を楽しみたい方にはお薦め 154;妻画像など満載出会いサイトを楽しむならココ無料出会いで一緒に遊ぼう出会いはLOVEｱｹﾞｲﾝで決まり

[ Parent | Reply to This ]


deai[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#351)
by Anonymous User on Fri Aug 08, 2008 at 02:51:11 AM PDT

SEXできる逆援助サイトです。逆援助なら童貞喪失も可能不倫がしたい人にもセックスフレンドがほしい人にも。 セフレやセックスフレンドを作って奥さんとSEXしよう。不倫関係や逆援助でもOKです。M男募集中の人妻さんと逆援助でセックスができます。愛人希望や不倫希望の女性との出会いがみつかる出会い系サイトはこちら。

[ Parent | Reply to This ]


Your are in error ![ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#16)
by Anonymous User on Mon Jun 27, 2005 at 02:34:45 PM PDT

Question from another merchant: How many merchants could stay in business for very long without accepting credit cards? Unfortunately, saying that what the above merchant stated is "patently untrue" just demonstrates a part of the problem - consumers really do not know how the credit card system works, and certainly not the hands-tied-behind-back agreements merchants must sign just to take credit cards so the business can be competitive. Like the merchant told you above, merchants are the ones who bear the cost of fraudulent transactions - NOT the ccard issuers/banks. The particularly unjust, absurd part of this situation is that the banks verify a transaction is "good" but then months later they just reverse their verification, and we must then reverse the transaction, still lose the original processing fee related thereto, plus get charged a very hefty chargeback fee for the transaction to boot. Further, the fraudulent transaction then goes againt the merchant's overall rating as to what risk catgeory they are placed in, resulting in even higher ongoing processing fees to the merchant as another add-on "penalty". Where's the justice in that? And it surely doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out who is making money on fraudulent transactions. As long as there is money to be made this way, fraud is going to continue to be rampant because the wrong folks are in bed together and it's all about the bottom line. In the meantime a lot of small business are going under directly attributable to this situation. Small businesses simply cannot absorb the kinds of losses associated. Obviously the current processing procedures are by design meant to keep padding the pockets of those who benefit by NOT stepping up to the plate and dealing with fraud appropriately.)

[ Parent | Reply to This ]


yes[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#333)
by maderikapapa on Fri Jun 27, 2008 at 09:10:42 PM PDT

出会い系出会い系サイト出会い喫茶出会い掲示板ナンパ出会いカフェ人妻出会い無 009;系サイト優良出会い系攻略 完全無料。アダルトビデオアダルト動画アダルトアニメアダルト画像アダル 488;サイト無料DVDアダルト風俗サンプル無料風俗優良アダルトサイト比較海 806;。人妻画像人妻パラダイス知合い人妻援護会人妻コレクション風 439;告白。熟女画像東京熟女掲示板動画熟女ビデオおまんこオナニー。エロ画像エロフラッシュアニメ 456;ロ動画エロゲームエロ漫画無料エロサイト。エッチ画像エッチ動画エッチ小説写真エッチ 450;ニメエッチ0930。セックスアナルセックス画像セックス動画セックスフレンドスワッピングSEX写真セックスボランティセ 483;クス体位東京セックス仕方 SEX。おっぱい画像おっぱい村長おっぱい楽園掲示板お 387;ぱい命おっぱいゲーム。巨乳動画巨乳画像アイドル巨乳 522;示板風俗。セフレ募集セフレ掲示板セフレ画像掲示板セフレの作り方出会い無料素人セフレ。童貞狩りエロ漫画童貞狩り童貞喪失童貞オークション素人童貞逆援。不倫パートナー不倫出会い人妻不倫不倫を楽しみたい方にはお薦め 154;妻画像など満載出会いサイトを楽しむならココ無料出会いで一緒に遊ぼう出会いはLOVEｱｹﾞｲﾝで決まり

[ Parent | Reply to This ]


Sorry - merchants ARE victims[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#18)
by tmahoney on Mon Jun 27, 2005 at 03:52:51 PM PDT

Sir;

I don't know where you are from, but trust me, it ain't so. I've got 3000 merchants that will tell you tht they ARE the victims.

With all due respect, you need to do some homework.

An Authorization means: The account exists and the card holder has sufficient credit to cover the transaction. It means nothing about the validity of the sale. Any merchant that thinks otherwise is in big trouble.


Tom Mahoney, Director Merchant911.org
[ Parent | Reply to This ]


Things have changed then[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#22)
by Anonymous User on Tue Jun 28, 2005 at 04:34:50 PM PDT

Based upon your comments, then things *have* changed in the last 10 years. The only reason my father signed up to accept credit cards was because the transactions were protected. If they were not, he would not have given up the 5% transaction fee when he could have had the same results accepting checks with no transaction fees. There's a thought, maybe merchants should start offering a discount for payment by cash or check rather than credit card. From what you are describing, there is no more risk in accepting checks than credit cards, customer pays less, merchant pays less in CC fees -- everybody wins.

[ Parent | Reply to This ]


Things have changed then[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#27)
by tmahoney on Wed Jun 29, 2005 at 04:24:35 AM PDT

I'm talking aobut on-line commerce - Not brick and mortar. Things have NOT changed in the e-commerce world. Your Father may have thought he was protected - most of our member merchants thought that too when they first got burned. It is now, and always has been, that the on line merchant pays for the fraud.
Tom Mahoney, Director Merchant911.org
[ Parent | Reply to This ]


yes[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#346)
by maderikapapa on Fri Jun 27, 2008 at 09:54:28 PM PDT

出会い系出会い系サイト出会い喫茶出会い掲示板ナンパ出会いカフェ人妻出会い無 009;系サイト優良出会い系攻略 完全無料。アダルトビデオアダルト動画アダルトアニメアダルト画像アダル 488;サイト無料DVDアダルト風俗サンプル無料風俗優良アダルトサイト比較海 806;。人妻画像人妻パラダイス知合い人妻援護会人妻コレクション風 439;告白。熟女画像東京熟女掲示板動画熟女ビデオおまんこオナニー。エロ画像エロフラッシュアニメ 456;ロ動画エロゲームエロ漫画無料エロサイト。エッチ画像エッチ動画エッチ小説写真エッチ 450;ニメエッチ0930。セックスアナルセックス画像セックス動画セックスフレンドスワッピングSEX写真セックスボランティセ 483;クス体位東京セックス仕方 SEX。おっぱい画像おっぱい村長おっぱい楽園掲示板お 387;ぱい命おっぱいゲーム。巨乳動画巨乳画像アイドル巨乳 522;示板風俗。セフレ募集セフレ掲示板セフレ画像掲示板セフレの作り方出会い無料素人セフレ。童貞狩りエロ漫画童貞狩り童貞喪失童貞オークション素人童貞逆援。不倫パートナー不倫出会い人妻不倫不倫を楽しみたい方にはお薦め 154;妻画像など満載出会いサイトを楽しむならココ無料出会いで一緒に遊ぼう出会いはLOVEｱｹﾞｲﾝで決まり

[ Parent | Reply to This ]


Charging Less for Cash[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#32)
by Anonymous User on Wed Jun 29, 2005 at 10:50:14 PM PDT

The last time I talked to a merchant who accepted credit cards about it (about 4 years ago), I was told that his contract allowing him to accept credit cards forbid him from making the effective price contingent on the method of payment -- he'd be in breach of contract if he let us pay less for something because we paid with a check or cash, rather than a credit card.

This is, of course, to help encourage extensive use of credit cards.

[ Parent | Reply to This ]



Everything costs more too[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#36)
by tscoff on Fri Jul 01, 2005 at 02:33:55 AM PDT

It also results in the prices of everything going up slightly to pay the Credit Card companies fees.

[ Parent | Reply to This ]


yes[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#330)
by maderikapapa on Fri Jun 27, 2008 at 09:02:07 PM PDT

出会い系出会い系サイト出会い喫茶出会い掲示板ナンパ出会いカフェ人妻出会い無 009;系サイト優良出会い系攻略 完全無料。アダルトビデオアダルト動画アダルトアニメアダルト画像アダル 488;サイト無料DVDアダルト風俗サンプル無料風俗優良アダルトサイト比較海 806;。人妻画像人妻パラダイス知合い人妻援護会人妻コレクション風 439;告白。熟女画像東京熟女掲示板動画熟女ビデオおまんこオナニー。エロ画像エロフラッシュアニメ 456;ロ動画エロゲームエロ漫画無料エロサイト。エッチ画像エッチ動画エッチ小説写真エッチ 450;ニメエッチ0930。セックスアナルセックス画像セックス動画セックスフレンドスワッピングSEX写真セックスボランティセ 483;クス体位東京セックス仕方 SEX。おっぱい画像おっぱい村長おっぱい楽園掲示板お 387;ぱい命おっぱいゲーム。巨乳動画巨乳画像アイドル巨乳 522;示板風俗。セフレ募集セフレ掲示板セフレ画像掲示板セフレの作り方出会い無料素人セフレ。童貞狩りエロ漫画童貞狩り童貞喪失童貞オークション素人童貞逆援。不倫パートナー不倫出会い人妻不倫不倫を楽しみたい方にはお薦め 154;妻画像など満載出会いサイトを楽しむならココ無料出会いで一緒に遊ぼう出会いはLOVEｱｹﾞｲﾝで決まり

[ Parent | Reply to This ]


yes[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#340)
by maderikapapa on Fri Jun 27, 2008 at 09:54:09 PM PDT

出会い系出会い系サイト出会い喫茶出会い掲示板ナンパ出会いカフェ人妻出会い無 009;系サイト優良出会い系攻略 完全無料。アダルトビデオアダルト動画アダルトアニメアダルト画像アダル 488;サイト無料DVDアダルト風俗サンプル無料風俗優良アダルトサイト比較海 806;。人妻画像人妻パラダイス知合い人妻援護会人妻コレクション風 439;告白。熟女画像東京熟女掲示板動画熟女ビデオおまんこオナニー。エロ画像エロフラッシュアニメ 456;ロ動画エロゲームエロ漫画無料エロサイト。エッチ画像エッチ動画エッチ小説写真エッチ 450;ニメエッチ0930。セックスアナルセックス画像セックス動画セックスフレンドスワッピングSEX写真セックスボランティセ 483;クス体位東京セックス仕方 SEX。おっぱい画像おっぱい村長おっぱい楽園掲示板お 387;ぱい命おっぱいゲーム。巨乳動画巨乳画像アイドル巨乳 522;示板風俗。セフレ募集セフレ掲示板セフレ画像掲示板セフレの作り方出会い無料素人セフレ。童貞狩りエロ漫画童貞狩り童貞喪失童貞オークション素人童貞逆援。不倫パートナー不倫出会い人妻不倫不倫を楽しみたい方にはお薦め 154;妻画像など満載出会いサイトを楽しむならココ無料出会いで一緒に遊ぼう出会いはLOVEｱｹﾞｲﾝで決まり

[ Parent | Reply to This ]


yes[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#329)
by maderikapapa on Fri Jun 27, 2008 at 08:47:49 PM PDT

出会い系出会い系サイト出会い喫茶出会い掲示板ナンパ出会いカフェ人妻出会い無 009;系サイト優良出会い系攻略 完全無料。アダルトビデオアダルト動画アダルトアニメアダルト画像アダル 488;サイト無料DVDアダルト風俗サンプル無料風俗優良アダルトサイト比較海 806;。人妻画像人妻パラダイス知合い人妻援護会人妻コレクション風 439;告白。熟女画像東京熟女掲示板動画熟女ビデオおまんこオナニー。エロ画像エロフラッシュアニメ 456;ロ動画エロゲームエロ漫画無料エロサイト。エッチ画像エッチ動画エッチ小説写真エッチ 450;ニメエッチ0930。セックスアナルセックス画像セックス動画セックスフレンドスワッピングSEX写真セックスボランティセ 483;クス体位東京セックス仕方 SEX。おっぱい画像おっぱい村長おっぱい楽園掲示板お 387;ぱい命おっぱいゲーム。巨乳動画巨乳画像アイドル巨乳 522;示板風俗。セフレ募集セフレ掲示板セフレ画像掲示板セフレの作り方出会い無料素人セフレ。童貞狩りエロ漫画童貞狩り童貞喪失童貞オークション素人童貞逆援。不倫パートナー不倫出会い人妻不倫不倫を楽しみたい方にはお薦め 154;妻画像など満載出会いサイトを楽しむならココ無料出会いで一緒に遊ぼう出会いはLOVEｱｹﾞｲﾝで決まり

[ Parent | Reply to This ]


bank takes the loss[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#25)
by Anonymous User on Tue Jun 28, 2005 at 10:14:35 PM PDT

Visa does not take the loss. The issuing bank or credit union does.

[ Parent | Reply to This ]


Geez are you ever wrong![ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#46)
by Anonymous User on Fri Aug 05, 2005 at 07:54:50 PM PDT

The amount of misinformation floating about this web site is mind boggling. Get it straight --- First, Visa IS the issuing bank- also the processor and the merchant bank. Visa is an ASSOCIATION comprised of the institutions and businesses in the payment industry that deals with Visa cards. Second, they do NOT take the losses in fraudulent e-commerce transactions. The merchants do - all of it. Every time. PERIOD. That's a fact. Tom Mahoney Director, Merchant911.org

[ Parent | Reply to This ]


yes[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#341)
by maderikapapa on Fri Jun 27, 2008 at 09:54:11 PM PDT

出会い系出会い系サイト出会い喫茶出会い掲示板ナンパ出会いカフェ人妻出会い無 009;系サイト優良出会い系攻略 完全無料。アダルトビデオアダルト動画アダルトアニメアダルト画像アダル 488;サイト無料DVDアダルト風俗サンプル無料風俗優良アダルトサイト比較海 806;。人妻画像人妻パラダイス知合い人妻援護会人妻コレクション風 439;告白。熟女画像東京熟女掲示板動画熟女ビデオおまんこオナニー。エロ画像エロフラッシュアニメ 456;ロ動画エロゲームエロ漫画無料エロサイト。エッチ画像エッチ動画エッチ小説写真エッチ 450;ニメエッチ0930。セックスアナルセックス画像セックス動画セックスフレンドスワッピングSEX写真セックスボランティセ 483;クス体位東京セックス仕方 SEX。おっぱい画像おっぱい村長おっぱい楽園掲示板お 387;ぱい命おっぱいゲーム。巨乳動画巨乳画像アイドル巨乳 522;示板風俗。セフレ募集セフレ掲示板セフレ画像掲示板セフレの作り方出会い無料素人セフレ。童貞狩りエロ漫画童貞狩り童貞喪失童貞オークション素人童貞逆援。不倫パートナー不倫出会い人妻不倫不倫を楽しみたい方にはお薦め 154;妻画像など満載出会いサイトを楽しむならココ無料出会いで一緒に遊ぼう出会いはLOVEｱｹﾞｲﾝで決まり

[ Parent | Reply to This ]


Credit Card numbers are just a start[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#39)
by Anonymous User on Tue Jul 05, 2005 at 05:57:07 AM PDT

Well, if someone gets your credit card number, they can charge lots of items in your name. Credit Card numbers can also be used to spring board the evil doers into opening other forms of credit in your name. Credit card companies, once convinced you are not scamming them, will do the necessary chargebacka (see other user's post) for the items. However, you will have to spend time & money to clear your credit of the mess and then monitor it. And if they somehow use your name with the police, you may then have police troubles that will take time to clear up.

[ Parent | Reply to This ]


yes[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#337)
by maderikapapa on Fri Jun 27, 2008 at 09:53:47 PM PDT

出会い系出会い系サイト出会い喫茶出会い掲示板ナンパ出会いカフェ人妻出会い無 009;系サイト優良出会い系攻略 完全無料。アダルトビデオアダルト動画アダルトアニメアダルト画像アダル 488;サイト無料DVDアダルト風俗サンプル無料風俗優良アダルトサイト比較海 806;。人妻画像人妻パラダイス知合い人妻援護会人妻コレクション風 439;告白。熟女画像東京熟女掲示板動画熟女ビデオおまんこオナニー。エロ画像エロフラッシュアニメ 456;ロ動画エロゲームエロ漫画無料エロサイト。エッチ画像エッチ動画エッチ小説写真エッチ 450;ニメエッチ0930。セックスアナルセックス画像セックス動画セックスフレンドスワッピングSEX写真セックスボランティセ 483;クス体位東京セックス仕方 SEX。おっぱい画像おっぱい村長おっぱい楽園掲示板お 387;ぱい命おっぱいゲーム。巨乳動画巨乳画像アイドル巨乳 522;示板風俗。セフレ募集セフレ掲示板セフレ画像掲示板セフレの作り方出会い無料素人セフレ。童貞狩りエロ漫画童貞狩り童貞喪失童貞オークション素人童貞逆援。不倫パートナー不倫出会い人妻不倫不倫を楽しみたい方にはお薦め 154;妻画像など満載出会いサイトを楽しむならココ無料出会いで一緒に遊ぼう出会いはLOVEｱｹﾞｲﾝで決まり

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