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Vanishing Netgear Rebate Reveals Unseen Dimensions | 72 comments (72 topical) | Post A Comment
Rebate Insanity[ Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#2)
by srynas on Fri Oct 21, 2005 at 05:31:21 AM PDT

We live in an electronic world; virtually every receipt we generate is in some sort of database.  When I went to return an item to HomeDepot they were able to retrieve my lost receipt so that I received my refund. Here we have technologically sophisticated companies that utilize Stone Age business practices(paper and three months of processing time)to conduct business. Geeze it only took me 15 seconds to swipe the credit card and buy the product.  

As everyone knows, the companies present these hurdles so that the customer is discouraged from collecting. But I often wonder if the companies are actually increasing their profits considering the expense of paying salaries to a staff that has a one-word vocabulary "NO" and the ill will they create with their valued suckers. Oops I meant "customers". Given today's technology there is simply no excuse for a rebate house to require a recipt as a proof-of-purchase anymore.

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The purpose of a rebate...[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#3)
by Anonymous User on Fri Oct 21, 2005 at 05:41:14 AM PDT

...is to lure buyers with the idea of a lower price while driving up profits by making it hard for them to actually get that lower price. If it were just a matter of giving buyers a lower price, they could give a discount at time of purchase. The PITA factor of the rebate process is a feature, not a bug. --Tony

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SanDisk lack of rebate[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#47)
by Anonymous User on Thu Oct 27, 2005 at 08:37:56 PM PDT

I bought a SanDisk flash memory from MicroCenter who printed out a rebate form to send in. The rebate was rejected by the rebate processor as being outside the purchase dates which it was clearly not or MicroCenter would not have given me the rebate form. SanDisk promotes these rebates as a way of increasing sales. Since I felt cheated, I now avoid the SanDisk brand when I purchase any products that they make.

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devious[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#8)
by Anonymous User on Fri Oct 21, 2005 at 11:09:09 AM PDT

Rebates are another way to pad their revenue numbers. They get to keep their revenue numbers, even though they need to subtract the cost of the rebate processing .. but that only affects profts. Wall Street is the one that encourages such devious schemes.

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re: databases[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#14)
by Anonymous User on Sun Oct 23, 2005 at 07:09:31 AM PDT

While the parent has a good idea, everyone should remember that oftentimes the retailer is NOT the one offering the rebate but rather the manufacturer. In that case, the rebate house would not have access to the database (and probably wouldn't because of privacy concerns).

Also, how are you going to prove the person purchased the item without a receipt?

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Huh? But the guy PROVIDED the reciept![ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#18)
by ekuns on Mon Oct 24, 2005 at 11:49:18 AM PDT

By asking "how are you going to prove the person purchased the item without a receipt?" you are totally missing the point of the issue. The issue here is about people who do include the reciept in the envelope -- often the reciept is the only place where you enter required information. And the rebate fulfillment house is somehow able to read the contents of the reciept before they declare it missing.

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Another purpose...[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#15)
by Jarulf on Mon Oct 24, 2005 at 01:28:12 AM PDT

Another purpose of rebates would be that it is in effect a simple way for the companies to get free loans and more money into the company. As you said, once in their computers, it takes no time and not much work to send it out. But if they add, say, 8 weeks of processing time, they effectively get your money as a free loan for 8 weeks. Not much to you, but if they get it from all customers (well, many), it is a lot of money for them. Add in that some doesn't file for the rebate, and they get "extra" income as well. I think that loan part is a big part of the reason why it is good, even if they did pay back every single rebate and in time, they would be making money on it.

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re: loans[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#16)
by Anonymous User on Mon Oct 24, 2005 at 04:43:46 AM PDT

I continually hear this myth about loans. So let me ask...what company?

Do you mean the manufacturer? Then they must be selling their product directly to the customer without any middleman whatsoever (and in that case ONLY can I see rebates being a loan).

If you mean the retailer, this would only be true if they were offering the rebate themselves without any manufacturer incentive. Most rebates that I get, however, are from the manufacturer directly (which means that the retailer gets absolutely nothing from this since I am paying the normal price at the point of sale).

In every other case, there is a supply chain involved (distributors, warehouses, retailers, and resellers) for whom the rebate is not a loan but rather a tool to increase sales at the end-point of the chain (ie, the consumer).

Rebates are primarily a marketing tool, NOT a free loan.

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Dissapearing money[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#17)
by Jarulf on Mon Oct 24, 2005 at 11:05:18 AM PDT

>I continually hear this myth about loans. So let
>me ask...what company?

The one giving the rebate of course, what else?

>Then they must be selling their product directly
>to the customer without any middleman whatsoever
>(and in that case ONLY can I see rebates being a
>loan).

Why would they need to sell directly? Sure, the middlemans and how much they get out of it might be somewhat affected by the initial price of the manufacturer. The rebate is basically the manufacturer (if we assume he is the one giving the rebate) paying back some omeny to the final customer. The alternative is of course to lower the prices straight of with about the same ammount. In there is a rebate, he will get the higher price straight off (no matter if he sell directly or through middlemen. He sits on that money until he pys back the rebate. That includes the long "processing time" but can also include quite a bit of time with the product sitting on the shelf for example.

If there is no such "loan" effect you claim, then you must say that the rebate money simply vanishes from existance during that time. Of course that is not the case. It is money the manufacturer get and has and can do whatever he wants with (well almost). It is free extra money, I call it a loan, perhaps you want to use another word, but it is money they don't have to pay interest on and can sit on for a considerable ammount of time.

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RE: loans[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#22)
by Anonymous User on Mon Oct 24, 2005 at 02:22:18 PM PDT

Sigh. I worked in retail for years, so I am very familiar with this process so let me explain this "myth" in greater detail.

There is no free money/loan, but there IS marketing or co-op money that a manufacturer may offer a reseller, OR money that a marketing department may say to another department "You can offer up $X.XX rebate on this line of products for this period of time" (for whatever reason).

For example, our company once got several thousand dollars in co-op money because we sold so much of manufacturer XYZ's product. However, we couldn't use that money for rebates (high-end computer systems at the time), but we COULD use this money for advertising (which we did on some of the local radio stations).

Later, when we opened up a retail store front, we offered rebates on computer hardware. However, these were from the manufacturer directly; we had no incentive as a reseller other than to tout the price of the item (in other words, we paid the same price to the manufacturer - which we bought directly from - regardless of whether there was a rebate or not).

As I moved from store to store with different companies, I saw the pattern was the same, except this time there were distributors between the manufacturer and reseller (which means the manufacturer sells their product to the distributor at a set price, who then marks it up and sells it to the reseller).

Again, the same price was paid by the reseller to the distributor (and the distributor to the manufacturer) whether there was a rebate or not; no loan.

In the case of a reseller rebate, every one I was involved in was done ONLY with the involvement of the manufacturer (ie, those co-op dollars I mentioned above). The reseller offered the rebate, consumers responded, and after all the rebates were fulfilled THEN the manufacturer reimbursed us.

You are assuming, I think, that every purchase of a rebate-eligible product that is not reimbursed is a loan. Because of the nature of the supply chain and reimbursement, that is simply not true.

Finally, nearly every rebate I was involved with I was told by marketing that on the average, rebate redemption rates were 2 to 3% for a given product. That is what they budgeted for. If (and there were a few) the redemption rate was above that, basically that money had to come out of marketing's budget.

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Still, there is extra money put in buy the consum[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#23)
by Jarulf on Tue Oct 25, 2005 at 04:03:05 AM PDT

It doesn't matter how money is moved arround between manufacturer, stores or other middle men. The thing is that the consumer pay MORE than he would without the rebate, and only get that money back at a later point (depending on the time it takes to process which appearantly is considerable in many cases). That money is in there with someone, be it manufacturer, shop, or whoever. It doesn't matter if there is restriction on what the money can be used to since the money is there. It doesn't vanish into thin air until the consumer gets it back.

Appearantly in your example, money seems to be transfered between manufacturer and store in various way, how is irellevant, when is irellevant, how the supply change looks or works is irellevant. The relevant thing is that there is EXTRA money tranfered from the consumer at the time of purchase that is only payed back later. That money is, in my point of view, a sort of loan to whoever happens to sit on it and can use it, for whatever purposes.

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One more thing[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#24)
by Jarulf on Tue Oct 25, 2005 at 04:05:07 AM PDT

Also consider that the consumer could have used that extra money he is out of for a few weeks for something else, for example investing them in something, earning interest, whatever. That is now done by whoever in the supply change sits on the money, and pay nothing for siting on that money for a while. A loan!

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loans[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#25)
by Anonymous User on Tue Oct 25, 2005 at 04:16:40 AM PDT

Obviously, we can't agree on this. However, I suggest that you take a look at what the definition if a loan is (at least in the US), and you'll see that what's happening here is not a loan.

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You're right, it is not a loan[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#26)
by Anonymous User on Tue Oct 25, 2005 at 05:27:22 AM PDT

BUT it is interest free capital. Just as paying invoices in 60 days instead of 30 days reduces the amount of money which is borrowed for operating capital, so does the rebate.

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Since I am not american[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#39)
by Jarulf on Wed Oct 26, 2005 at 12:17:49 AM PDT

Since I am neither american nor native english speaking, perhaps "loan" is not the coreect economical or gramatical word. But as someone else answering said, it is free money that the customers give to "someone in the supply chain" for a considerable time to do with whatever they want. Since I get it back, I personally in every day talk would say it is about the same as a loan. You can call it whatever your dictionaries says, but it is money someone get and can invest, earn interest or do whatever they want with and that is in my opinion a considerable reason for the rebate system.

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Vanishing Netgear Rebate Reveals Unseen Dimensions | 72 comments (72 topical) | Post A Comment
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